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Maxer
Yak Posting Veteran
51 Posts |
 Posted - 2008-06-26 : 11:18:44
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| We are looking at using Symantec Backup Exec w/ SQL Agent version 10D or RedGate SQL Backup.Does anyone have experience with either offering?Honestly I'm happy with my TSQL based backups to tape as they are, but there is talk of purchasing a specific backup program so I am leaning towards RedGate but our other admin wants Symantec.Thoughts on either offering? |
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sodeep
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
7174 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-26 : 11:22:43
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| I would recommend SQLLitespeed as lot of company uses it . |
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Maxer
Yak Posting Veteran
51 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-26 : 12:01:58
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| Haven't considered that, but I will look into it. |
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maninder
Posting Yak Master
100 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-26 : 12:27:05
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| http://www.idera.com/Products/SQLsafe/This is rated among the top tools for bakups with SQL LiteSpeed.Maninder |
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tfountain
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
491 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-27 : 13:45:14
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| We use Backup Exec (11d?) for backing up our SQL databases. We don't have any other options since this is rolled into a corporate backup policy that also includes backing up file systems across servers, etc. But it works like a charm IMO. |
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Maxer
Yak Posting Veteran
51 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-27 : 14:42:17
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quote:
Originally posted by tfountain
We use Backup Exec (11d?) for backing up our SQL databases. We don't have any other options since this is rolled into a corporate backup policy that also includes backing up file systems across servers, etc. But it works like a charm IMO.
Does it work well for doing restores of SQL Server databases, Tlogs, etc...Does it also offer encryption? |
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tfountain
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
491 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-27 : 14:46:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Maxer
quote:
Originally posted by tfountain
We use Backup Exec (11d?) for backing up our SQL databases. We don't have any other options since this is rolled into a corporate backup policy that also includes backing up file systems across servers, etc. But it works like a charm IMO.
Does it work well for doing restores of SQL Server databases, Tlogs, etc...Does it also offer encryption?
We have it doing full backups of our full and simple databases nightly and it performs tlog backups every hour. As far as encryption goes, I'd have to ask our network guy since I'm just the database side of this but I'd have to say yes, it supports encryption. After all, it is one of the major backup software packages on the market. |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-27 : 14:47:09
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Use SQL Litespeed instead of the Red Gate product as LS compresses as it backs up whereas the Red Gate product waits until the end. I was incorrect in the previous statement, so I've updated my post with the strikethrough.If you need a script that can do both native and LS backups, check out isp_Backup: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/archive/2004/07/02/1705.aspxI would never use the Backup Exec software to backup my databases. I can not afford to rely on another team to have the policies setup correctly, monitor the system, or restore my data. Backing up data is the most important thing a DBA does, so our jobs depend on it.Tara KizerMicrosoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Serverhttp://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/Subscribe to my blog |
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tfountain
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
491 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-27 : 16:24:22
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quote:
Originally posted by tkizerI would never use the Backup Exec software to backup my databases. I can not afford to rely on another team to have the policies setup correctly, monitor the system, or restore my data. Backing up data is the most important thing a DBA does, so our jobs depend on it.
This is a blanket statement Tara. You assume the teams are totally oblivious to each other. Fortunately this is not the case for our organization - but I can see it for some companies being an issue. We actually recognize if our teams operate blindly to each other we would be in a world of hurt. With this in mind all 3 main IT departments coordinate all policies, procedures and practices jointly but we each have our own tasks to carry out when it's all said and done. There are degrees of separation and this is one of them. As a DBA, you should ensure the backups happen. But you don't have to do the backups. I'm not saying it's wrong if you do but it's not essential.Besides, Backup Exec has agents for both Oracle and SQL Server and I guarantee it's way easier to configure and implement than worrying about setting up some custom tasks.However, with that said and done, I need to admit that for some of our more critical databases... I do have a secondary SQL backup that runs and stores those on SAN device for a brief period of time... But for all practical purposes (data refreshes, disaster recovery, point in time recovery etc)... Backup Exec is our primary tool to ensure this happens. Heck, how else would you have enough room to store your transaction logs? Without a checkpoint every hour it would never truncate would it? |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-27 : 16:41:40
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quote:
Originally posted by tfountain
Heck, how else would you have enough room to store your transaction logs? Without a checkpoint every hour it would never truncate would it?
We backup our transaction log every 15 minutes and have no issues with space. I don't see how Backup Exec helps with this.I don't understand your question about checkpoints and truncates. You don't do this with databases where you require point in time recovery (FULL or BULK_LOGGED recovery models). Truncating the transaction log breaks your ability to do a point in time restore as you've broken the transaction log chain. But perhaps I'm not understanding your question.Tara KizerMicrosoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Serverhttp://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/Subscribe to my blog |
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tfountain
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
491 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-30 : 11:21:51
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| Ok, truncate was the incorrect terminology but when the transaction log is backed up, that allows SQL Server to start writing the transaction log from the beginning of the file (as opposed to constantly growing the log file by writing at the end). Either backup method will cause this to happen. But my question is where do you backup your transaction log to (disk, tape?). |
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sodeep
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
7174 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-30 : 11:47:58
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| "Ok, truncate was the incorrect terminology "If you don't understand the meaning of Truncate,then whole issue of explaining about recovery model is useless. Usually the answer to your question would be : Full backup, Diff backup and Transaction Log backup stays in a Disk for a Week (So it is easier to recover) and then goes to Tape in weekend ) Or you can delete old one. |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-30 : 12:56:47
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quote:
Originally posted by tfountain
But my question is where do you backup your transaction log to (disk, tape?).
All of our backups go to disk first. Then the backup files are swept to tape by software such as Netbackup.Tara KizerMicrosoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Serverhttp://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/Subscribe to my blog |
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blindman
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2365 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-30 : 17:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by tfountain
quote:
Originally posted by tkizerI would never use the Backup Exec software to backup my databases. I can not afford to rely on another team to have the policies setup correctly, monitor the system, or restore my data. Backing up data is the most important thing a DBA does, so our jobs depend on it.
This is a blanket statement Tara. You assume the teams are totally oblivious to each other. Fortunately this is not the case for our organization - but I can see it for some companies being an issue. We actually recognize if our teams operate blindly to each other we would be in a world of hurt. With this in mind all 3 main IT departments coordinate all policies, procedures and practices jointly but we each have our own tasks to carry out when it's all said and done. There are degrees of separation and this is one of them. As a DBA, you should ensure the backups happen. But you don't have to do the backups. I'm not saying it's wrong if you do but it's not essential.
When was the last time you actually performed a point-in-time recovery from one of these backups?My company has an IT department, and an HR department, and a Sales department, and we all work together to promote the business. But our IT department does not depend upon HR or Sales to keep the network running, and I do not depend upon other people to ensure that my primary responsibility, maintaining databases, is done correctly.I have walked into too many companies who thought that their copy of Veritas was backing up their databases when, in actuality, it was not.quote:
Originally posted by tfountainHeck, how else would you have enough room to store your transaction logs? Without a checkpoint every hour it would never truncate would it?
I think you need to do some more reading about how the backups and recoveries you never perform actually work.e4 d5 xd5 Nf6 |
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blindman
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2365 Posts |
Posted - 2008-06-30 : 17:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by tkizerAll of our backups go to disk first. Then the backup files are swept to tape by software such as Netbackup.
Exactly the same strategy I have been using for 15 years.e4 d5 xd5 Nf6 |
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Maxer
Yak Posting Veteran
51 Posts |
Posted - 2008-07-01 : 09:58:07
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| That really is my concern. How well DO the restores work with those 3rd party programs? Symantec, Veritas, etc... I see how Red Gate works, I imagine Litespeed is similar being an SQL specific tool. But the server wide tools that have an "agent" to grab the database files... I don't know.I guess for whatever reason I trust those less. Granted if I took the time to demo them all and backup and restore several databases I'd know a lot more. The other people I spoke with in my organization that use the large scale backup programs with the SQL agent module/add-in never really did anything with their restores I found out. They occasionally refresh a brand new dev install with a production database. But they pull it straight from production, they don't pull it from prod's backups... Anyway at this point I'm thinking I'll stick with my Management Studio tools and TSQL. I have my step by step document that I created which has everything itemized and includes a few screen shots.Granted it may be a bit OCD, but I'd rather have it all written out so I can just follow each step in a time of crisis rather than go "Oh crap... what EXACTLY did I do 6 months ago the last time I restored something... (or even 3 weeks ago)"Sure I would figure it out, but when the system is down I don't want to have to pull up a TechNet or BOL article, I want every step right in front of me and I want to know it was the same step I did the last X times I performed a restore.Anyway a bit of a tangent I guess.I suppose I'm just old fashioned when it comes to trusting 3rd parties. If I had 200 servers to monitor I'd be a fool for not utilizing a more automated scripting tool that gives me everything at a glance. But when I only have a handfull, I don't mind pulling the logs or getting an email when something goes wrong and then occasionally doing a restore to DEV just to make sure everything is still working. |
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tfountain
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
491 Posts |
Posted - 2008-07-07 : 14:34:18
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| Hey blind... note that I said all 3 IT departments, not all company departments. I do not depend on our business units to determine how to backup the data for the company. You misread this.From a DBA perspective, as long as the backups occur on the proper schedules and we can successfully test our recovery process on a periodic basis then who really cares if I actually do the work to see it done? If there is software and hardware in place to do just this, why would I want to reinvent the wheel and not allow another IT department to handle this? Keep in mind there are checks and controls in this process to enforce everything everyone is stating here to ensure the backups are good and valid. I just don't subscribe to the philosophy of tyrannical ownership in our business.And to answer the other question as far as how often I restore from these tape backups... all the time. Well, honestly it goes in cycles. I have not had a request in over a month but prior to that we were performing 3-10 a month for the past year. We only had one issue in that time (when a backup spanned tapes). We have an entire process in place where the month ends go to an offsite storage location and retrieving tapes from them is easy as well. |
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blindman
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2365 Posts |
Posted - 2008-07-07 : 14:41:26
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| No, I did not misread your post. I understood you were talking about IT departments.e4 d5 xd5 Nf6 |
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)
7020 Posts |
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tfountain
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
491 Posts |
Posted - 2008-07-07 : 16:41:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Valentine Jones
You might want to refer to my remarks on this thread about things I do not like about direct to tape database backups:http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51150CODO ERGO SUM
I'll check this out tonight. Thanks. |
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tfountain
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
491 Posts |
Posted - 2008-07-07 : 16:41:41
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quote:
Originally posted by blindman
No, I did not misread your post. I understood you were talking about IT departments.e4 d5 xd5 Nf6
Your analogy was a bit misguiding then. |
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Anyone using backup tools? Symantec/RedGate?