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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
 Posted - 2010-02-08 : 04:47:59
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| Hi all,is it maybe about time to create a forum for the new cloud based SQL Azure? I haven't tried it yet but I'm trying to convince my employer to pay for an azure database that I can play with... Have any of you tested it yet?? How does it perform? Can I expect for it to be usable and to have decent performance as a backend for a desktop app in Norway?- LumbagoIf the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein |
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SwePeso
Patron Saint of Lost Yaks
30421 Posts |
Posted - 2010-02-08 : 05:35:21
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http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/peterl/archive/2009/12/12/First-take-on-Azure.aspx
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2010-02-08 : 06:51:01
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Great feedback Peter but your blog post doesn't have very much information. Even though it says that the query takes 4 times as long as on your old express I was hoping for some more accurate benchmarking data, for example if there is a lot of connection overhead. How does a small indexed query (SELECT * FROM table WHERE MyClusteredID = 73536) perform compared to more complex queries? If you feel like sharing your azure-connection feel free to pm me  - LumbagoIf the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein |
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SwePeso
Patron Saint of Lost Yaks
30421 Posts |
Posted - 2010-02-08 : 10:07:42
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Too late, they stopped all pre-pay test databases just a few days ago.
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2010-02-09 : 02:33:36
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| No problem, it seems as they have a free 500MB windows azure account that you can try out and that comes with a free 1GB sql azure database that lasts for 3 months so I managed to sign up to that yesterday. Didn't have very much time to test it though so I'll do more of that today. If I can get some sensible performance data I can post it if you like...- LumbagoIf the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2010-02-09 : 09:16:01
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| "If I can get some sensible performance data I can post it if you like..."yes please - even if it is NOT sensible |
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2010-02-10 : 05:20:17
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| I've been a little busy since I posted this so I haven't had a chance to test it properly yet. Do any of you happen to have a "generate-some-sample-data-and-run-a-really-heavy-query"-scripts laying around that I can test with?- LumbagoIf the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein |
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SwePeso
Patron Saint of Lost Yaks
30421 Posts |
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2010-02-10 : 08:37:20
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| Excellent Peso! Here are some simple stats:Insert of the 10k hardcoded rows from my management studio query window:- Azure: 30.5657048 seconds- My laptop: 8.2206438 seconds- A db server at work: 6.0446044 secondsPesos 4d query:- Azure: 0.4770477 seconds- My laptop: 0.1800180 seconds- A db server at work: 0.2590259From what I can understand this is pretty decent actually. The insert took a long time but I guess that's due to the network latency of transferring the data to Dublin. Don't have time to do more thorough testing now I'm afraid...- LumbagoIf the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein |
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jacobs12
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-01 : 14:30:44
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| For everyone playing with SQL Azure, what are you using for reporting? Do the Visual Studio reports connect seamlessly? What about reporting services? |
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dinakar
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2507 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-01 : 16:09:02
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| Not sure how I missed this post.. but I have been directly working with the SQL Azure product group and customers with their SQL Azure solutions for the last 6-7 months.. feel free to ping me if you have any questions..Lumbago: The latency does play an important part. You do have the option to create your database in the data center closest to you. We have one in Europe, 2 in US and another in Singapore. IF your application is running on Windows Azure and is accessing SQL Azure there shouldnt be any latency issues as they are both in same data center, although you do have the option to create your database in a different data center.SQL 2008 R2 has full support for SQL Azure in terms of connectivity and generating scripts.Dinakar Nethi************************Life is short. Enjoy it.************************http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/ |
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dinakar
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2507 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-01 : 16:31:45
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| Also I wanted to provide some strengths/weaknesses of SQL Azure so you understand what is possible and what isnt.With SQL Azure, Microsoft is providing you the ability to create unlimited number of databases, with each database you create having high-availability out of the box. What you are not getting is an "instance" of SQL Server. The server you create on the portal is just a logical name for a group of databases you can create. So there is no creating jobs, monitoring, clustering, replication etc. You can do everything you can at the database level. We still do not have some of the features like TDE or spatial data types.. but rest assured they will all become available eventually. Basically you cannot do any "Server level" stuff. At the database level, you can create databases, create roles, logins and all the good stuff such as tables/stored procs/functions/views etc.After a certain point, scaling up doesnt provide linear returns on investment. You need to scale out. When you talk of scaling out, just creating multiple databases on same instance or multiple instances on same box isnt going to give you high returns either. You need to spread out your data across multiple instances on multiple machines. And when you talk of scaling out to multiple machines think of appications like Facebook, Flickr, Youtube, eBay etc which probably have thousands of machines. Now imagine the hassles of maintaining all these thousands of instances - hardware provisioning, OS installs, software upgrades/patches, monitoring, disc utilization...Lets say you still address a majority of these issues.. lets say you are a retailer and anticipate some demand during christmas and thanksgiving. You purchase X number of servers to scale out to. After the holidays are over, you cannot give back the hardware to vendors and get your money back. All of that high end hardware will be sitting in your data center for the next year. thats a lot of money sitting and not being utilized properly.With SQL Azure, if you anticipate demand, you spin up N number of databases and pay for only the time you are using them (prorated up to 1 day), and when your usage goes down you can drop the databases and go back to your normal operating databases and not have to pay anything until you are ready for expanding again. Each of these databases cost $10 for 1 GB and $100 for 10 GB and you can create any number of them. You dont have to worry about hardware provisioning, OS installs, software/security patches, maintenance, monitoring... And you have real time information about your database usage costs. If you need to expand you know exactly how much it will cost and if you scale back you know exactly how much you will save. Does that sound interesting yet? :)Dinakar Nethi************************Life is short. Enjoy it.************************http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/ |
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SwePeso
Patron Saint of Lost Yaks
30421 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-01 : 16:46:30
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Hi Dinakar.I appreciate you joined in here.How is the time measured? Duration or CPU (in terms of SQL Profiler)?If you use one cpu for 500ms duration, is it the same fee as using 16 cpus for 500ms duration?Do you have an estimate when SQL Azure will support different server collations?
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dinakar
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2507 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-01 : 17:23:31
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| The utilization charges are based on how long your database is online. If you created a 10 GB database today and dropped it tomorrow you will be prorated for $100/30 ~= $3.33/day. The collation is high on the list AFAIK.. not sure about the timeframe of release yet.. Make sure you provide feedback at http://www.mygreatwindowsazureidea.com if you want to help prioritize this feature :)Dinakar Nethi************************Life is short. Enjoy it.************************http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/ |
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-03 : 03:16:09
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| Personally I think the whole Azure concept is awesome and I really hope that it will keep evolving. The problem with Azure however (sql in particular) is the various limitations. The 1 and 10GB limitations are obvious but the fact that there is no SLA guaranteeing hardware performance or network bandwidth makes it really difficult to use Azure for mission critical stuff. I haven't tested SQL Azure that much yet but with an increasing amount of users I assume that bandwidth will become a problem. By having your own infrastructure you can actually guarantee some level of performance and to me that makes the whole difference.Another issue is the security part of it. I haven't read anything about it and I don't want to jump to any conclusions but my gut feeling is that my data is less secure when it's in the cloud than within my own server room. Please let me know if this is not the case. Has a SQL Azure database ever been hacked or the data compromised?- LumbagoIf the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein |
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dinakar
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2507 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-03 : 17:20:27
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| Microsoft does guarantee 99.9% SLA on uptime. And if we fail to keep the uptime, Microsoft will reimburse you back the money owed for the downtime. If your application is sitting on Windows Azure, then bandwidth wouldnt be a problem because both your application and database are in same datacenter. And believe me we have real fat pipes :) Obviously, a 500 GB OLTP database cannot be replaced with SQL Azure. It depends on the nature of your application and the type of workload. >>my gut feeling is that my data is less secure when it's in the cloud than within my own server roomThis is a perceived problem. When you create a SQL Azure server, you get a logical servername and you create databases and you control who has access to those databases. There are multiple levels of security. You need to specifically indicate the IP's of the computers from which you want to allow connections to your SQL Azure server. This is done via the "Firewall" tab in the portal. Then there is your regular SQL Server security model. Dinakar Nethi************************Life is short. Enjoy it.************************http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/ |
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-04 : 02:42:51
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| I just downloaded the SQL Azure SLA and I have to say that it was quite disappointing. 3 pages in total and only half a page with actual service level descriptions saying more or less what you said dinakar but in a few more sentences. Nothing about security, hardware performance, bandwidth... I understand that with the current pricing levels there is a limit to how much performance one can _guarantee_ but it should be possible to have something a little more "enterprise-friendly", at least about the security as this would be the key point to many of my customers at least. I guess you've heard this before though and that it's being worked on - LumbagoIf the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein |
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dinakar
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2507 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-04 : 14:17:51
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| Is there anything specific that doesnt address your concerns? The Security Guidelines are described at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff394108.aspxI'd be happy to take the feedback back to the product group if you can detail out what specifically you are looking for. Feel free to ping me offline if you need to.Bandwidth depends on your clients' internet speed...right? If your app is in Windows Azure and within the same data center as SQL Azure, then your app will receive the data from SQL Azure as fast (or even faster) as you would see with an on-premise app. Bandwidth comes into picture depending on the location of your users. As for hardware performance, SQL Azure runs on commodity based hardware. Multiple tenants reside in same database on same server. Its pretty hard to guarantee resources (whether IOs per sec or CPU cycles) per tenant.Dinakar Nethi************************Life is short. Enjoy it.************************http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/ |
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-05 : 05:18:38
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| I guess it's just a matter of how the security guidelines and sla and all the documentation is phrased together with my general gut-feeling and the immaturity of the whole cloud concept. And to be completely honest I think the graphic design and the simple contents of the azure web pages is actually contributing to my skepticism. It looks very polished and sleek but there are hardly any configuration options, which gives me the impression that it's a beta product and probably filled with bugs. This might not be the case but this is the feeling I get. The simplicity actually has a negative effect on me. That being said, cloud-based services are definitely for the future and I will love to be a part of it. I just don't feel confident enough to recommend it for enterprise use quite yet but I'll be more the happy to be convinced otherwise.- LumbagoIf the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein |
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asmi_far
Starting Member
1 Post |
Posted - 2010-03-05 : 12:20:11
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| hi can u please guide me how to use extend keyword on a single table having two different dates means i want to access the record from abc table whoes date is between '' and ''and also i want to have date <= ''can any one guide me in this regard. |
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visakh16
Very Important crosS Applying yaK Herder
52326 Posts |
Posted - 2010-03-05 : 12:31:09
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quote:
Originally posted by asmi_far
hi can u please guide me how to use extend keyword on a single table having two different dates means i want to access the record from abc table whoes date is between '' and ''and also i want to have date <= ''can any one guide me in this regard.
why you posted question here? how is this relevant to this thread? please dont hijack threads. post your question as a new thread------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------SQL Server MVPhttp://visakhm.blogspot.com/ |
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