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SamC
White Water Yakist
3467 Posts |
 Posted - 2004-10-11 : 12:12:32
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| I've got an ASP / SQL 2000 app running on a single box right now. I've got to bid a 4 nines and 5 nines solution. I suppose this will involve an SQL cluster and a couple of dual-homed IIS servers to serve up the web traffic, but I'd appreciate any feedback or comment with more detailed solutions. I haven't deployed anything like this myself and like all technology in my life, it sounds simple till I try to do it!I expect the traffic load to be very light on this server, so horsepower isn't a factor. It's the uptime requirement that is driving this and penalties will apply for "unplanned" outages. Our single server is handling all this traffic and more today, but it's a single point of failure. I'd like to not "overbuild" the hardware to meet this 4/5 nines requirement.Sam |
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eyechart
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
3575 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-11 : 12:22:02
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| If you think this will be simple, you haven't really thought about it. think about this:1. Redundant internet connections (preferably from different telcos)2. Redundant network hardware3. Since it is clustered SQL Server, you will need a Domain infrastructure/AD installation. That is a few more boxes to think about.4. SAN solution for storage, dual HBAs. Possibly a second SAN that you replicate to in case of failure of the first (or maintenance).5. Server hardware should be robust, ability to hotswap commonly failing components (power supply, drives) as well as ones that don't fail that often (CPUs, PCI cards). They also need redundant network connections.I could go on. Four nines is doable on a reasonable budget, 5 nines you will most likely have to add a an extra digit to the estimate. 5 nines means 5.3 minutes of downtime a year btw.-ec |
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Arghhh
Starting Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-11 : 12:27:13
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| nt |
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SamC
White Water Yakist
3467 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-11 : 13:24:15
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| The product and service we offer isn't mission critical and won't justify the expense of a 4 nine's infrastructure. Can anyone offer a rough estimates on what the price range would be for a monthly lease on a system like this ? I suspect that turning this pricing back to the prospect would quickly alter the requirements for 4 nines.Sam |
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X002548
Not Just a Number
15586 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-11 : 15:28:48
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| $$$$ speak louder than words...Brett8-) |
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clarkbaker1964
Constraint Violating Yak Guru
428 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-11 : 15:34:25
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I worked an implementation like this ASP/Sql Server and we outsourced the monitoring... They provided the Hardware and the on site support, we were paying 12k per month and I don't think it was really worth it. The organization is called the Planet out of Tex the facility is impressing but expect to help them when implementing the solution... Expect support calls in the middle of the night from Unix guy cause they are understaffed on NT. |
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SamC
White Water Yakist
3467 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-11 : 15:44:06
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Is there no way to avoid a single point of failure with SQL other than clustered servers?Are clusters servers anything like  peanut clusters? |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-12 : 04:31:19
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| Gotta think about the impact of any changes to the database structure too ...... we're now working to rollout upgrades to our application that can happen whilst users are still using the application ... that's quite tricky!Kristen |
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ehorn
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
1632 Posts |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-14 : 21:36:33
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| A true 5 9s environment will run you well into 6 digits if not close to 7.Tara |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-15 : 01:17:56
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| "6 digits if not close to 7."That's be $999,999 then <g>Kristen |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2004-10-15 : 12:08:22
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| Yep.Tara |
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ehorn
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
1632 Posts |
Posted - 2004-11-09 : 15:14:29
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quote:
Originally posted by SamC
...Can anyone offer a rough estimates on what the price range would be for a monthly lease on a system like this ? I suspect that turning this pricing back to the prospect would quickly alter the requirements for 4 nines.
Sam,I just got a quote from DataPipe on a 5 nines dedicated, fully administered, environment and the cost is $2000.00/month. This quote was for a Standard Windows Web and Database Server Configuration, listed in the link below. THought I would pass along my findings to you.http://www.datapipe.com/windowsdb_configs.aspx |
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MichaelP
Jedi Yak
2489 Posts |
Posted - 2004-11-09 : 16:11:20
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| Be sure with whatever you buy you get 24x7x365 with 4 hour response time. If you have critical issues, you want it fixed ASAP.It's usually not cheap, but it's worth it.Michael<Yoda>Use the Search page you must. Find the answer you will.</Yoda> |
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SamC
White Water Yakist
3467 Posts |
Posted - 2004-11-09 : 16:21:34
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| Is the configuration spelled out in this quotation? The 5 nines sounds like an "actual" number which *could* go to H3ll in a handbasket given one real failure.Sam |
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MichaelP
Jedi Yak
2489 Posts |
Posted - 2004-11-09 : 17:28:45
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| I think when you start to approach 4 and 5 nines, you have so much redundancy built into the system that you'd need several catostrophic failures to go down. I think part of that downtime quote is scheduled down times as well. So, you basically have to NEVER go down!Michael<Yoda>Use the Search page you must. Find the answer you will.</Yoda> |
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derrickleggett
Pointy Haired Yak DBA
4184 Posts |
Posted - 2004-11-09 : 20:08:14
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| Nobody has asked you a really obvious question. What kind of hardware/network/DR setup is the company running under now? The initial implementation of all these pieces is incredibly expensive. Adding solutions into an existing solution becomes exponentially cheaper as the infrastructure to support it matures.The datapipe solution is only five nines for the network uptime. Big deal. If they don't have that, they suck!!!! You will have redundancy on the second solution they offer, which I'm betting won't be $2000.00/mo. Even that won't give you DR 99.999% redundancy though. You would need that times 2, with the additional servers located in a remote site. To move up to 6 nines, the remote location would need to have a significant geographical seperation, which could cost hundreds of thousands alone just for the datapipe. On your solution, it would be significantly less though because of the low traffic.MeanOldDBAderrickleggett@hotmail.comWhen life gives you a lemon, fire the DBA. |
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ehorn
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
1632 Posts |
Posted - 2004-11-09 : 20:19:39
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| I see your point Derrick...Can you then explain to me what is meant by the term - "network uptime" ??Does this mean that the network will be up and running and the power will be on at the datacenter for that % of time - even if your particular server(s) take a crap?ps.. Sorry for the mis-information Sam. |
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Bidding 4 nines and 5 nines